Disturbingly, Hilton and I are both hearing more and more about failures on the range or in classes of heavily modified polymer pistols. There are more and more “shops” coming out of the woodwork advertising customization and enhancement of Glocks and M&Ps and not all are created equal. Many commonly offer CNC machine work or grip texturing to improve the handling characteristics of the pistol. Some other shops offer “improved” fire control parts to lighten and or improve the feedback of the trigger. Unfortunately, most of the time, modification of the factory fire control parts ends up meaning a decrease in reliability and/or durability of the weapon.
My personal preference, based on tinkering with many aftermarket brands, usually involves sticking with the factory fire control parts. In the case of Glock, I will use a dot or minus connector with very light polish on working surfaces. In the case of an M&P, I make an exception and like the Apex sear, spring upgrades, and domed plunger. For a duty or defensive gun, I do not deviate from this formula. When going to a Glock or M&P, I have come to terms with the fact that I won’t ever achieve the crisp break and reset of a 1911 trigger, and the more you try to make a Glock trigger into a 1911, the more problems arise. Instead, I’ve simply learned to shoot the gun. Recently, I shot the FBI Bullseye Course and my score with a stock G17 trigger was 280, and with my customized duty 1911 it was 279.
There are more options than ever for customizing and personalizing your modern service pistol. If you decide to go this route, make sure you choose a reputable shop that specializes in reliable modifications in the context of duty or defensive applications. And be sure to use common sense and don’t buy into the hype of every brand new product. I recommend the following shops:
Tim
I’ve noted the same trend as well. Just this past weekend at an IDPA Competition Clinic a student had a Gen 4 19 he had modified. He had done a great job of removing the finger grooves and stippling the grip, but was having FTE issues and stovepipes specifically. I asked him what he had done internally and he of course listed his modifications. I then asked “Are you an experienced Armorer”?
Just because you can find the information on the internet, doesn’t mean you should do it yourself.
Be Safe
Bob
I know I’ve said this before, and I’ll say it again: This is the same path down which the 1911 went. The more custom parts and the more non-OEM versions there are of stuff, the more chances there are that something’s going to go wrong, and when you combine all of that with multiple manufacturers of a platform and inexperienced shooters, you run into reliability problems.
Regardless of platform, Tim’s advice is spot on: Don’t do work to a machine unless you know what you’re doing, and don’t have work done unless you know the guy doing the work knows what he’s doing. Otherwise you’re gonna have a bad time.
The same can certainly be said for AR patterned weapons too. As I am sure others here have also seen, when I’ve attended classes open to the public I’ve witnessed regular failures do to sub standard parts or home assembled hobby guns. The AR has its own set of idiosyncrasies and weaknesses that have to be understood in order to assemble or modify a weapon so that its dependable enough to be a service or self-defense piece. Ben at Boresight Solutions really said it to me best: It’s not always or even typically the catastrophic failure of one single part that causes the problem, its the sum of multiple small failures or oversights that aggregate into an unreliable weapon.
You really have to be careful who you trust your weapon to, especially in this age of 1001 garage-born Youtube gun “experts”. When my agency had a need to install KMR rails on existing uppers, the FSB’s had to be either replaced or modified. Ben walked us through what our options were and made a recommendation. His work was really well thought out and executed. For our money we got a guy who treated our guns like his own life depended on them and that’s what I look for. Nothing less is good enough.
Thanks,
Scott Mitchell
Police Firearms & Tactics Trainer
Coral Springs Police Training Unit
I cant second the comments in this article any louder. Guys or woodwork shops are kitchen table tinkering guns that they have limited knowledge to do so. Even if you have been to the 8 hour Glock armorer course, I would still not advise heavy modification, without knowledge or experience.
I guess its just the tacticool trend to “trick out” a gun, but why not just buy more ammo instead of after market parts fire control parts that may make your pistol less reliable?
I realize that Tim wrote this post, and my question is more for Hilton, but how has the Salient Arms Tier 2 M&P held up? Is Salient Arms another option for excellent customized duty weapons in addition to the two options linked at the bottom of this article (assuming the user is willing to pay the difference in cost)?
For as long as Ive been shooting, Ive never bought an aftermarket trigger for my handguns, with the exception to my 1911’s. Outside of a lil polishing, theyre all stock. Even my M&P. I replace sights, maybo do a lil stippling and done. No extended mag releases, titanium firing pins, rubber grip sleeve…nothing.
You mentioned the slide milling. I plan on installing an rmr on a Glock 17 I picked up recently for a build and I was curious if in your experience excessive milling or milling gone awry can have negative effects on the reliability of a firearm. Salient seems to go crazy with the mill so I’m assuming it can’t have a negative effect or are they taking other steps to counter act the effect.
Based on current experience, the two shops above are the only ones recommended at this time. Of course, this is subject to change as the industry evolves or we get more hands on time with the work from different shops.
I got to play with a Salient G17 a while back and was impressed. I’m really starting to think I need to send them my M&P9 FS. It’s more of a range gun at present. Anyway… that said, I agree with your assessment 100 percent. It’s hard to resist the “do it yerself” temptations and there are still a few out there who look at something and decide it looks simple enough to work on so why pay a gunsmith. And its not just with Glocks – M&Ps, revolvers, ARs, etc.
The point of my article was more than just to avoid the temptation to do it yourself. Remember the purpose for which you are employing the modern polymer pistol, and use common sense when selecting your modifications, as well as the shop to whom you send your pistol. Some mods make sense; others are superfluous and compromise the reliability of the pistol. Choose wisely.
Just a general nod of assent here from a shooter not in the same league. I’ve tried various combinations of the minus connectors and springs in my Glocks and ultimately reverted to stock parts with a mild polish.
Also just a general FYI that the link target you supplied for ATEi leads to the Boresight Solutions site. Not a huge issue to Google it, but again, just FYI.
Thanks for the heads up. I will make the correction.
Mr. Lau,
Would you consider an aftermarket drop in barrel for a Glock from any of the reputable barrel companies to be a “threat” to reliability for a self defense / home defense gun?
Thanks for the good article.
KT
Most shooters will do well to keep the factory barrel in place. Many “drop in” barrels do little to change the accuracy, since it is primarily the fit which improves accuracy and by its very nature the drop in barrel is not that tight a fit. Further, chamber dimensions may be tightened and cause reliability issues if the barrel is not properly addressed during installation. Most factory Glocks shoot 3″ or even better at 25 yards. If you aren’t getting those type of groups, buy more ammo and not a new barrel.
Boom!! Training is always the answer.
“Further, chamber dimensions may be tightened and cause reliability issues if the barrel is not properly addressed during installation.”
Me. Yam, are you referring to the drop in or stock barrel? Please straighten me out on this sentence. I have tried repeatedly to decipher it. Thanks again for your time.
Typically on the match barrel but don’t rule out changes in a drop in. You don’t know what you have until you drop a reamer in there.
I recently took an Armorer’s Certification Course from a major manufacturer of AR-15’s. The class was a mix of LE people and some none LE people like myself. While the particular manufacturer has posted articles about changing triggers and polishing parts as such, the course instructor was very cautious about recommending anything like that for the LE people. He got the point across that in any court case, if the service weapon had been modified by anyone beyond manufacturer’s original design, the attorney for the other side will have you for lunch!
Bingo! Almost every glock I see choke on the firing line will be one which has been modified or “improved” I am not saying some things might not be useful to some users but when it comes to carry pistols I stand pretty firmly in the leave well enough alone or not broke don’t fix camp. Even the so called problem of shooting cast lead in glocks is as simple as pushing a brass brush through the bore every couple hundred rounds.
10-8 sights: Love me that Brass Bead and Wide Rear U Notch)
Vickers Mag release: Still can’t take the mag out when pressed against the table, but easier for small hands.
Glockworx Reduced Power Firing Pin Safety Spring: I’ve never been a big fan of drop safeties that keep the ground under the muzzle safe and don’t do anything else but increase pull weight…
I see people dumping big money in after market parts but they won’t do $30.00 worth of maintenance every couple of years (OEM spring replacements.) Too many people watch You Tube and think they are gunsmiths.
I know when I took a course with Travis Haley he said you gotta be careful doing the frame of the glock because if you do it wrong it could cause it to crack during firing. Nevermind the fact if you mess up Glock won’t cover fixing it.