Recently, several folks have asked why we cover the 9mm variations of Glocks/M&Ps and seem to ignore the other calibers, specifically the 45. So here are a random collection of thoughts on the Glock 21. When selecting a pistol for duty, it’s really hard not to get mired in a caliber debate. Without digressing too far, it is my strong belief that in service handgun calibers, using modern hollowpoint ammunition, the caliber used is of no real significance. Yes, you could split hairs, but for all intents and purposes handgun calibers are all weak. So if we can agree on that, it doesn’t really make a whole lot of sense to deviate from the 9mm. This caliber offers the following advantages: higher capacity, lower recoil, and reduced costs for training. The lower recoil is a significant advantage even to red blooded American males who aren’t recoil sensitive as it allows for longer training periods with less fatigue and more importantly, significantly reduced probability of wear and tear to your joints and connective tissue over a career of high volume shooting. All things being equal, the reduced recoil also allows most shooters to put down accurate followup shots more quickly.
And it is for these reasons why we are so 9mm centric when it comes to coverage and preference of pistols here on MSW. However, there are many reasons to take a look at other pistols. A big one is agency policy. Many folks simply don’t have a choice and are beholden to whatever caliber their employer approves. And if you are limited to 45 ACP, the Glock 21 is a fine choice with one caveat.
I am a big Glock 21 fan; I find it to be one of the softest shooting 45 caliber service pistols I’ve ever shot. My friend Caleb Giddings of GunNuts.Net turned me onto the tungsten recoil system for the Gen 4 Glock 21 sold by Glockstore.com. It is a drop in replacement for the Gen 4 recoil spring assembly and makes the already soft shooting pistol even more controllable. I find the gun tracks flatter during recoil with this setup and have not found any negative effects on reliability.
The 12-round magazine capacity offers a 50% increase in capacity over that of a single stack 1911, and the pistol itself is far less maintenance intensive. Of course, the Glock trigger is heavier and a little more difficult to manipulate but with practice I find I can shoot the pistol quite well. I’ve managed 3-inch groups at 25-yards standing freestyle.
The pistol is extremely shootable. With very little train-up, I managed to perform respectably well in a local GSSF match and the transition from the 9mm variants of the platform was transparent. Like its smaller siblings, the Glock 21 benefits from a few minor modifications. First, and most important are a set of quality iron sights like the ones from 10-8 Performance. For whatever reason, the slide stop sits a little more flush against the frame and is a bit harder to depress than in the smaller framed guns. I like to replace it with the excellent extended slide stop from TangoDown. And while I’m at it I also like their improved magazine release.
The only weakness of the Glock 21 is the large frame size, which really requires at least medium sized hands to efficiently operate. The SF and Gen 4 models are a little bit slimmer than the Gen 3 variant but the difference is fairly marginal. In this pistol I prefer the Gen 4 variant with no backstraps. It offers the smallest grip circumference and has very functional texturing. Additionally, the dual recoil spring setup does seem to soften recoil over the standard Gen 3 setup.
So there you have it. If you are required to carry a 45 caliber pistol, and don’t have pygmy hands, the Glock 21 is a great choice. It’s currently my favorite service pistol in 45 ACP.
I cant wait til you or Hilton do a shooting review on the new Glock 45ACP with the slim slide of the G34/35 series!!
I believe the M&P series in .45 Is so FAR superior ergonomically that it isn’t even fair. If you can’t palm a basketball, the Glock .45 is equivalent to a 2 x 4.
I agree the M&P 45 ‘s shape feels better in the hand. However, for me, the factory texture is insufficient to lock the gun in my grip without significant effort and the recoil is a lot sharper. I had two of em and never enjoyed shooting them because of these issues.
Having shot the M&P a fair bit (2400 rds) side by side with Glocks (my standard “platform”) I was impressed with the speed of reloads and the smooth curvy M&P grip felt good in the hand. OTOH the angular 2×4 feeling Glocks seem to lock in straight with less tuning for final confirmation of sight picture when moving quickly. In my hands, through my eyes at least. I’ve owned an RTF2 G21 and a Gen 4 for a spell. Swell pistols and all but didn’t keep them. I put a few hundred through a borrowed Gen 4 G30 and if anything, I thought it tracked even flatter than the 21. Maybe less slide mass or maybe nothing but I seem to perceive that characteristic across other caliber Glocks and 1911s also.
The G21 mag is 13 rounds, almost double the 7 round capacity of the 1911 flush fitting mag.
How about you leave my pigmy hands out of this?? Hmm? LoL
I have actually owned several Glock .45 models and have found that the Gen 4 works the best for me. I am a lefty so actually using the controls is not an option anyways and prefer to manually work the slide when reloading. Slide release? There is a SLIDE release on there? I had no clue.
What are your thoughts concerning the unsupported chambers of the Glock .45 guns? Have you ever seen issues arise because of it?
Thanks for the article on the Glock 21 and speaking to current 45’s.
The Gen4 G21, with no backstrap, is the thinnest grip front to back that Glock has produced to date. Add the Gen4 standard mag release which is extended backward, it only enhances the useablity of this pistol for more folks, especially with smaller hands.
Upgrades as deemed needed and mentioned, guiderod, extractor, grip plug, extended releases and of course good sights.
Keep up the good work!
On this same .45ACP Glock note, I would love to see one of you really dig into the new Glock 30S and share your thoughts there. It seems to have overcome a lot of the issues with previous .45 Glock installments and to have a compact one that still holds 10+1 seems to be extremely advantageous.
I’ll see if I can’t get my hands on one for testing at some point.
That would be awesome! Thanks so much Tim, I’ll keep my eyes peeled and fingers crossed for some possible future T&E with the G30S.
Great call, especially when the Gen4 frames come on line.
I would enjoy a review on the new Glock 41, comparing it to the 1911.
What front sight blade height have you chosen for your G21?
anyone? anyone?
Mine seems to shoot POA/POI at 25 yards with a .235″ tall front sight. The guns kind of vary so you need to confirm what sight works for you. I recommend taking the time and using Hilton’s Glock Sight-in Tool to figure out what you need. Unfortunately they are out of stock at the moment. That said, I find that .235″ tall suits my needs MOST of the time on MOST guns.
Thanks for the reply. I used the sight-in tool and found .235″ as well. Just wanted to get some feedback from others.
I can’t agree with the 9mm characterization. “All handguns suck, so I’ll carry the worst” is like saying “No vehicle is really fuel-efficient, so I might as well drive the tractor the work.” Otherwise spot-on analysis.
I don’t agree that it is the worst. 9mm performs statistically similar to 40 and 45.
Great article Tim. I agree with your assessment of new sights being one of the first things to upgrade and 10-8 makes great sights.
As far as Grip size on the Glock 21 can I recommend our services at ROBAR for grip reduction. We can eliminate the large bump to bring the size of the Glock 21 in even smaller and more comfortable than the Glock 17. Also it straitens the grip angle so it is an easier transition from the 1911 or M&P to the Glock.
I really wanted to love the 21, because I love my 19. But my smaller than average hands just can’t get with one, I tried and tried with an SF, but the thought of spending a couple of hundred for grip reduction put me in 1911 territory. I finally ended up with the M & P full size w/ safety. I shoot it just fine, recoil is no worse than my carry 4″ Kimber Pro CDP, everything is cool. I would like to check out a 30S sometime though, tupperware 10 + 1 in a carry size .45 is real intriguing. I carried a 36 for years.
Good review Tim – I recently posted on another site that I was able to shoot three inch 25 groups ( and some a little smaller) with a glock and was told by others that the platform is simply not capable of producing such performance – happy to see I am not the only one who can attest to such accuracy!
Personally I’m a huge fan of the hk45 and USP lines. The FNX45 is also a great gun, and it’s 14 round magazine is darn near double the 1911.
It still smarts on an emotional level that the 1911 is denigrated as it is, though. It’s a pistol I’m very fond of and I’m sorry you and Hilton seem so down on them lately.
As I told hilton, I finally traded my 1911 in for an HK45 for daily carry. I just can’t bring myself to like glock. However, it always puzzles me on the “a lot of work” front with regards to the 1911 as I have two colts with over 100k rounds through them, a brown with over 50k, a couple of basic springfields going on 30k each and none of them have had more than routine spring replacements and a bore snake down the bore, with no mechanical issues not solved by fresh mag springs and some lube.
I can personally attest that neither Tim or Hilton are “down” on 1911’s. They are “realists” on 1911’s. As an obvious fellow sophisticate, I too have transitioned to the HK45 as my go to .45ACP pistol. I also carried a HK USP45 extensively in my L/E career. I still LOVE 1911’s, but I also understand that the love comes with work. I don’t mind it, I spend the money for exceptionally well built 1911’s and I maintain them properly. They run like sewing machines. With that said, many of my co-workers in L/E who think they are gun people far more than they really are, have lots of issues with them. For most folks who are not enthusiasts, things like the Glock 21 are a better option. For those of us looking for match 1911 level precision with service pistol reliability you have already figured out the HK45 is that option.
Hey Darryl, actually from a practical perspective, we -are- kinda down on the 1911. I still find them amusing from an artistic perspective, and they are accurate. I’ve also seen individual examples that have run reliably with high round counts like Mr. Knuth states above. That is nice, but those are limited samples. As you know (and have seen yourself) Darryl, Hilton and I have seen many, many more 1911s that choke or otherwise fail at the cyclic rate in classes and on the department range, far too often for us to recommend it as a general issue pistol to the masses.
I’ve carried both a Gen III 21 and an SF. Both were reliable and accurate, but I’m also one of the ones won over to the M&P 45. The 21 does shoot softer than the Smith, but the Smith is easier to carry.
Department mandated use of .40 cal, so I went with the G22 and was happy with it, reliable firearm and I shoot well with it. They expanded and now allow us to choose from a few select .45’s, so I stepped up to a Gen 4 G21. Upgraded sights (Warren, 10-8’s were on backorder and I needed them ASAP). Best stock Glock trigger I’ve felt too, with the addition of a minus connector. So now I’ve got a soft shooting .45 for duty carry, and my G22 has been converted to 9mm via a KKM barrel for 3 gun and training classes/practice.
FWIW I love the M&P ergos, but have personally seen too many malfunctions firsthand from multiple guns that I am glad I went with the Glock. Bad batch? Possibly, but it doesn’t inspire confidence when your life may depend on it. Plus, I never liked that dang jointed trigger! To each their own, terrific article, keep up the good work guys!
Tim, This article was useful for me, in that I the day before it came out I had dropped a memo asking that we transition, or at least allow, 9mm M&P’s for duty use. Currently, we’re going with the .45 M&P’s, but it’s not for everyone and I’m pretty sure Doc GKR has show that all handgun rounds are equally inept. So, use the one that allows the best follow up shots? Ya, couldn’t agree more. Your comments about the .45 M&Ps, pretty much mirror what we’ve noticed, so I’ll be putting my .45 M&P up for sale soon and hitting the 9mm market again. First time in 16 years that I’ve been I’ll be in a 9mm for duty use. Just like fashion, it all comes back around!!!
Thanks again.
Kendall, it’s great to hear from you! As you know, we’ve been around the block once or twice with the 45 caliber round in various platforms, and while I still like to lay it down with 230 gr slugs on occasion, it’s hard to argue with the effectiveness, firepower, and efficiency of 9mm service ammunition.
Tim, Hay I check this site at least once a day, but don’t post as usually it’s just to echo what someone else has said. Too true on the .45. I still love my 1911’s, and will always keep at least one, but my duty stuff is all moving to 9mm since we’ll be soon, if not already, be getting the 9mm M&P’s ok’d for duty use.
Keep pumpin’ out the good info, and the gear that’s derived from it.
Mahalo,
K
Definitely one of my favorite .45s: Gen3, G35 mag/slide mechs., Wolff captured RSA, Glock light, and go. Glock lights are cheapest and fastest to remove, alter, batteries, etc. most KISS, IMO. Think I have the rubberized Decel grip tape as well. Tried the M&P mid-sized .45 as result of a trade, and did not like it, can’t put a finger on why other than it’s not got the fist-filling feel of the G21. Have not handled a Gen4 G21 yet….and probably shouldn’t. As usual, thanks for the good works.
Tim (and others)-for years and thousands of rounds I’ve been running my Gen III “Big Butt.” Yes, the frame is larger, and yes, your hands displace differently on it than, say, the standard/compact Glocks-but I still find that I have a very natural, instinctive (albeit “different”) index on it for fast, acurate sight acquisition and shooting. On mine, I’m running the heretical (albeit steel) Glock sights, a Glock extended slide stop/release, and the current upgraded Glock triggerbar and a “dot” #5 connector. I’ve also added a segment of mountain bike inner tube for additional grippiness.
Best, Jon Stein
I think stock Glocks are great (I own 8 of them, including two 21’s and two 30’s) and am a firm believer that anyone that uses/carries a Glock should install a Vickers/Tango Down slide release and mag release as a standard installation, regardless of the generation of Glock they’re using.
I wish every Glock came from the factory with them.