The SIG SAUER P224-9-SAS-DAK is one of several variants of the new P224 branch of sub-compact SIG SAUER Classic Line Pistols.
The new SIG SAUER P224 pistols are now making it to the market on a regular basis and this one is mine. Holding true to all the quality, accuracy and ergonomic features of the SIG SAUER Classic Line pistol family, the P224 is the first of the sub-compacts for this line.
About the size of a G26, the 9mm P224 holds 12+1 in 9mm and 10+1 for the .40 and .357 SIg variants. This particular model came with 2, 12 round magazines. An added feature of the P224 is that it will accept and run the larger magazines from the P226 and P229 pistols. A sleeve is in development to fill the gap between the mag base and the end of the grip for the P229 magazines.
The SAS, or SIG Anti-Snag, model has had all the sharp edges blended and since it is a DAK it lacks the de-cocking lever assembly. The DAK or, Double Action Kellerman, is a DA trigger system that runs at about 5.5# and does not stack. It makes for a very smooth and consistent DA only trigger action. Combine that with the rounded butt, E2 Grip System, smooth edges and minimized slide catch lever and you have a very slick and concealable package. Knowing that I can carry 30+1 rounds of 9mm between the gun and a single spare P226 magazine gives me added confidence in the gun overall.
There are several variations of the P224. They, along with all the pertinent specs, can be found here on the SIG SAUER web site.
I’ll be shooting and hopefully carrying this gun over the next few months and will post updates as I progress.
Looks very cool. Can’t wait to hear what you think of it.
I wish Glock would get on board and start doing something different. Single stack micro nine, single stack Glock 23 in 45. They need to go upside the box like when Kiss took off there make up. The only really different thing they have done in a while is the Gen 4 back strap Beaver tail. A version of finger grooves or NO finger grooves.
I haven’t shot a Sig in awhile. I bet that Sig shoot and feels great in the hand. Are any Sig’s still made in Germany? I was wondering my Sig’s that I don’t have anymore I bought in the early 90’s 226 and 229 the best shooting nines out there.
Back then there customer service was great! I got a little rust on some scratched grip screws. I called them back then. I didn’t have a computer then. I wanted to buy some screws. They said NO we will send you some compliments of Sig.
I think Sig is going to knock this one out of the park.
Can’t wait to hear about your testing. Some Rand CLP would go great with that pistol. Lol
The only SIG Sauer pistols made in Germany are the special guns. We make all of our regular production guns here in NH. We actually do it better than they do now. (haters read the last word in that sentence before you try to flay me for it) The German guns are the “X” guns, P232 and stuff along those lines. All of the regular production guns are US made. SIG SAUER USA is a different company than Sig Sauer Gmbh. We do it better, faster and on a much larger scale than the Germans do now.
We have plenty of Rand CLP at the SIG Academy and many people are using it with great success. SInce this was a brand new gun, I stripped and completely degreased it. I Frog Lubed every part and put it back together and will run it to see how well the Froggy does. Normally I am just a regular oil kind of guy so this will be interesting.
I think the gun you are looking for in .45 from Glock is the G36. It is a single stack that is about the size of the G23.
Thanks for the info. Great pistol!!!
Scott, your not the one trainer that my friend Andrew at Andrews leather made a very cool double shoulder rig for? It is a very cool double rig, Sig on the right , Sig on the left with a mag pouch underneath the both holsters. Two is always better than one especially a Sig. Great engineering !
Sorry. No. I am not that guy. He was not an instructor, he worked in the pro shop and has since left the company. I remember the rig though. It was very cool!
Any word when this model in 9mm and DA/SA SRT will be shipping?
I have read on the Sig Forum, some comments by Bruce Gray suggesting the P224 in .40 is under sprung, and some early .40 buyers have reported reliability issues. Any word on fixes, if any for the 224 in .40?
I’m an instructor who works at the SIG Academy. When guns will be released or any information regarding current models will come from the folks in SIG SAUER Customer Service. The SIG Academy is a separate facility from the factory. The information for which you are asking is way outside of my job description.
If Bruce Gray says something, I’ll listen. However I would caution against believing everything you read on forums. I have no knowledge of the .40 cal P224 because I don’t do .40 cal guns. Your best source for the information you want is either directly from Bruce Gray, directly from SIG Customer Service or your own first hand knowledge.
Remember, everything you read on the Internet is true. Abe Lincoln said so.
This is the post from Bruce, that appeared on the Sig Forum, that I am referring to:
Originally posted by Grayguns:
I am appreciative of this opportunity to offer an opinion on the 224, and other related subjects.
After working on a few of these in .40 calibre and trying to shoot them, I’ve come to see the 224 negatively. This is despite my admiration for a few clever and sensible innovations that the designers incorporated to solve a few likely issues with durability. Unfortunately, they seem to have created as many more.
The design lacks spring tunnel space for an adequate recoil spring. Thus, at least in .40, this pistol is woefully under-sprung. When shooting, I can feel the slide stalling as it starts to strip the next round from the magazine. I’ve also experienced some FTF’s that can be attributed to that, as well as to the questionable long extractor.
The extractor can be fitted to feed, pretty much, but there is no solution to the inadequate recoil spring issue.
My advice? Pass.
-Bruce
That is great. What does it have to do with the gun I am running?
It is fine to accept the advice of an expert such as Bruce Gray. it would be foolish not to do so. I am confused as to why you choose to bring it up here when I am not discussing the .40 cal gun. The topic of this is the SIG P224-9-DAK-SAS. My information is based on first hand testing of that gun. Drifting to other topics leads to misinterpretation and is where misinformation is born.
While I accept your information and can appreciate your desire to discuss it, I fail to see the relevance. I see it akin to bringing up the Glock 23 kaboom of years past when discussing the Glock 19 of today. Same size gun, some common parts, but that is pretty much it. This loss of focus on a specific topic is the impetus for mis-understanding and, when combined with the anonymity provided by the internet, it can be outright slanderous. It is not fair to the manufacturers, the writers or the readers.
Scott, first I am extremely fond of Sig P series pistols. I shot one for four months earlier this year to learn a DA/SA action, own a bunch of them, shot advanced at Rogers with one this spring, and spawned a ton of positive discussion of Sig pistols over at Pistol-Forum, no doubt leading to a fair number of Sig pistols being bought and shot by high round count shooters.
Here is why I view Bruce Gray’s comments and the initial experience with the 224 in .40 as relevant:
1) We have very little experience with the 224 in 9mm, and most of the 224 pistols in service are in .40.
2) Sig makes a big deal about caliber and trigger conversions in the 9/40/357 models. I have 9 and 40 top ends for my 226 and 229, and DAK and DA/SA trigger kits for multiple pistols.
3) Bruce Gray has forgotten more than I know about Sig pistols. He made the comments I posted not in a private or unsubstantiated conversation, but in an open forum, the Sig Forum, under his name. By any measure, his comments on the P224, along with issues reported by new P224 .40 owners, are at the very least concerning. While I believe his comments were directed at the P224 in .40, as that is all that was out at the time, he didn’t qualify his comments that the 9mm should be fine.
4) With the 224 and 227 representing new major product introductions for Sig, a number of my friends interested in the 224 in 9mm DA/SA and 227 in 45 .acp have been watching the P224 introduction for hints how the 224 9mm and 227 will go.
“While I accept your information and can appreciate your desire to discuss it, I fail to see the relevance. I see it akin to bringing up the Glock 23 kaboom of years past when discussing the Glock 19 of today. Same size gun, some common parts, but that is pretty much it. This loss of focus on a specific topic is the impetus for mis-understanding and, when combined with the anonymity provided by the internet, it can be outright slanderous. It is not fair to the manufacturers, the writers or the readers.”
I was under the impression that the comments section of MSW was for polite, thoughtful, but candid discussion of the products and services being featured, and I frequently read MSW to try to stay abreast of new developments I might have otherwise missed. I can’t for a moment see how inquiring about comments that Bruce Gray made, under his name in a public forum, especially after you said, “if Bruce Gray says something, I’ll listen,” could be “outright slanderous?” Neither can I understand how my questions to you, someone associated with Sig, and presumably familiar with Sig products, are out of line or somehow unfair to readers trying to evaluate whether to invest in a new Sig pistol? Now if Hilton or Tim want a policy of only fluff comments and questions, ala the standard gun rag pistol review, I certainly will follow their instruction. I certainly hope that is not the case, because I thought MSW was much more than that.
I look forward to your reports on the P224, as being a person that likes and owns Sig products, it is a pistol I am interested in. My primary P226R, bought in 2012, is thru 9,000 rounds with just two partial cleanings and has yet to experience a single stoppage, malfunction or parts breakage. I have yet to experience a single stoppage in a 226, 228, 229 or 239 that I own. The 224, if it proves to be as reliable as my other Sig P series pistols, would be a fine companion piece to my 229 in .40 and 9mm with the -1 magazines.
Let’s do this by your numbered points.
1) I am not discussing the P224-40 so what anyone thinks about it is not relevant to this discussion. They are two completely different guns.
2) I have not heard about the P224 having a caliber conversion kit and nothing of the sort is being discussed here, so again, relevance?
3) Bruce was commenting on the P224-40 because that is all he was discussing when he made his comments. To bring another gun into the discussion would have been misleading and irresponsible. Hence the reason I am trying to get you to stay focused on the P224-9. Bruce was discussing one gun, I am discussing another. He did not comment on the P224-9 for any number of reasons. Perhaps he did not have one yet. Maybe he wanted to stay focused on the .40 cal gun. Who knows? What is for certain is that he made no comment regarding the 9mm version as I am making no comments regarding the .40 cal version.
4) This makes no sense to me. The success or failure of one gun is not indicative of the success or failure of another. The P224 is a completely different gun than the P227. Just as the P224-9 is a completely different gun than the P224-40 that Bruce Gray shot and evaluated. Did he happen to mention how many of them he used for his evaluation?
?) I agree. Polite and candid exchanges of information. I am calling you out on the fact that you want to discuss something other than the topic of which I wrote. I am calling you out on the concept that you want to form an opinion of one gun based on the performance of another. By bringing up negative comments made by a recognized expert about the P224-40 you attach them to the P224-9. Now you have attempted to attach the reputation of the P227 to that of the P224 just as you have attempted to attach the comments made by Bruce Gray about the P224-40 to the P224-9. That defies reason. In doing so, regardless of intent, you create misinformation. That is irresponsible and could be viewed as slanderous by some.
I am testing a single gun. A sample of one is indicative of nothing. I am doing this for my own edification and in no way, shape or form should it be construed as anything but a single source finding. I am willing to share what I find with others so they may look into the matter in depth and in a way that suits them personally.
I would strongly encourage you to wait 12-18 months before you buy any P224. By then there may be suitable data available for your purposes. For these discussions, please keep the P224-9 and the P224-40 separate as I have been trying to do all along.
Scott — I’ve been reading MSW since it began, and I’ve certainly never seen someone attacked in the comment section for asking about something other than the specific sub-sub-model of a product being discussed. Some of the lube threads, for example, certainly included discussion of COMPETING products.
You’re talking about a P224. That it’s a 9mm and a SAS is understood and clear from your post. But when you personally endorse someone (Bruce) and then someone points out that Bruce has publicly raised questions about the P224, as a representative of the company “I’m not talking about that caliber!” probably isn’t the message you intend to transmit. If you’re unaware of the issues that’s one thing, but criticizing someone for asking the question isn’t appropriate.
disclosure: I was a SIG employee for 5 years and for part of that time I was the primary company POC on SIGforum.
Scott- how does the P224-9 compare in size, weight, and handling to the P250SC in 9mm?
Scott, this is not productive.
In the last 12 months, I have purchased 8 new Sig P series pistols, 5 Sig CPO P series pistols, had 11 of those through Sig’s custom shop, and defended Sig countless times on various forums from attacks on Sig’s quality and commitment to customer service based on my personal experience with Sig quality and the Custom Shop. If your views and tone reflect those of either Sig USA or the Sig Academy, and this is how you communicate with your customers, I am deeply troubled.
You ever think maybe its you? Do you have personal poor experience with the P-224? It sounds like you and Scott have the exact same personal experience with a gun that is not the subject of the article. I have a feeling that if Bruce Gray wanted to do a .40 P-224 review here, nobody would have an issue…..even if it was no a good review. I doubt Scott would comment, as he doesn’t have the personal experience with that platform to comment, as he has stated numerous times.
You are arguing about something you read on the net about something that is not part of the 9MM P-224.
I am hardly a SIG fan these days for a variety of reasons, so I am as far from a mouthpiece as you can get, but I think Scott made it pretty clear what he is reviewing. Now, if this was a issue with the 9mm P-224 that Mr. Gray is commenting on, then fair game, AND his comments would be very welcome here.
I don’t post on anything firearms related on P-F any longer specifically because of these kind of responses from you. You already are trying to drag this over here from there. Do you really think this is constructive? Essentially, I don’t work for Sig nor do i have any interest in any current SIG offerings and I think Scott has tried very hard to appease you short of saying “GJM, you are right, the P-224 sucks because you read it on the internet, even though I don’t shoot one or have any first hand experience, just like you”. Then again, you have the corner on all the Glocks that extract and eject flawlessly, unlike the hoards of folks who are reporting otherwise…..weird?
Mr. GJM,
I hate to tell you buddy, but your “defending” of and selling SIG pistols by word of opinion in the interwebs, and buying x # of SIGs in a calendar year doesn’t change the fact : this review is about the 224 9mm. With all due respect, while you are here crooning about Mr. Gray’s initial opinion on the 224 in .40, said Mr. Gray is troubleshooting and fixing pistols, and not holding his breath for your opinion to be published. Step away from the keyboard for 24 hrs.. I am merely a SIG Armorer, so my opinion does not reflect the factory ; go for a run, hit the gym, do some push ups, and then go hit the range. This is a professional and productive environment, so keep your attitude moving in a more positive direction.
GJM – I do believe Scott said fairly clearly that he is NOT a representative of Sig Arms. As such, “productive” discussions about reliability issues and fixes for weapons he has no personal exposure to (and I happen to know he overall doesn’t like .40’s) is unreasonable. You want to talk about .40’s, he probably isn’t your guy.
Scott,
I’m wondering why you don’t care for .40 cal. I have a P229 in .40 cal that is great and never gives me a any trouble. Also I don’t really know how DAK is different from a regular DA, could you explain. Thanks
I am not Scott, but here is why I don’t care for 40 caliber: from a terminal ballistics perspective, it does nothing a good 9mm duty load can’t do: penetrate deeply, expand consistently, and perform well through common barriers such as sheet rock and clothing. Yet 40 caliber pistols typically have sharp, snappier recoil than their 9mm counterparts which result in a measurable decrease in performance. You can usually see this if you put most shooters on a timer and, say, do 12 or 15 yard Bill Drills and compare results (speed and accuracy) between a Glock 19 and 23. So really, you gain nothing measurable in ballistics and you pay for it in recoil, fatigue, ammunition capacity and cost.
Well said, Tim! Fully concur with everything you wrote.
Dave,
The DAK or Double Action Kellerman is a 5.5-6.5# non-stacking Double Action Only trigger mechanism for SIG SAUER Classic Line Pistols. The engineer who developed it in response the horrendous DAO originally offered by SIG SAUER is who it is named after.
The DA/SA action of SIG SAUER Classic Line Pistols is a 9.0-10# Double Action trigger mechanism for the first shot fired from the de-cocked position while the hammer is resting on the Safety Intercept Notch. Each subsequent shot after the gun cycles is fired by a 4.5# Single Action trigger mechanism which is released from the Single Action notch on the hammer.
The DA/SA, DAO and DAK SIG SAUER Classic Line Pistols all have the same 3 inherent safeties. These are the Disconnector which is located on the trigger bar which will not permit the gun to fire if it is not fully in battery. The Firing Pin Lock located in the slide which blocks the firing pin from reaching the primer unless the trigger has been pressed through full cycle. It is operated by the safety lever which is operated by the trigger bar. The third being the Safety Intercept Notch located on the hammer. It will not permit the hammer to reach the firing pin unless the trigger mechanism is fully cycled. The Safety Intercept Notch is where the hammer is moved when the de-cocking lever is used to de-cock the pistol. The only acceptable way to de-cock a SIG SAUER Classic Line Pistol is to use the De-cocking Lever.
I do not do .40 or the .357 SIG because the pay off is not worth the cost. I prefer greater capacity, faster follow up shots and a less physically stressful caliber. The 9mm is a well developed round that has a proven track record. If you like the .40, I have no problem with it. I have no dog in that fight so my opinion hardly matters.
Scott,
The ONLY time you specifically mentioned 9mm seperate from .40 in your article was when you mentioned how many rounds you could carry and in the caption. The title of your article is SIG P224 SAS…there is no 9mm in there. You didn’t specify ANYWHERE in your article that you were NOT discussing the .40, you only brought it up in the comments when you didn’t like what GJM had posted. I read this article with the .40 in mind. I find the comments of GJM and Mr Gray quite relevant as I was considering the .40. You are coming off as very immature and as a complete prick in these comments. Nice work ya big baby.
FWIW: The description in the caption of the picture for this posting is indicating that the gun as a P224-9-SAS-DAK. In other words, a P224, 9mm, Sig Anti-Snag, Double Action Kellerman. I guess that made the first indication that this was about a 9mm model.
The second paragraph that, as you pointed out to well, delineates the different capacities of the available calibers, also indicates that this gun came with 2, 12 round magazines. Since the 9mm is the only one that is available with 12 round magazines, I took that as a second indication that this was about the 9mm version of the P224.
So, I will live on, being a complete prick as you say, and accept that you feel I am a big baby. However, the fact still remains that the astute reader with the most basic knowledge of SIG SAUER Classic Line Pistols could easily pick out that this is about the P224 in 9mm.
On top of those things is the original question posed by GJM. He asked about when the 9mm DA/SA, SRT would be available. He used those descriptors so I took it to mean that he understood SIG lingo and therefore that he understood that this was about the 9mm. I was polite and respectful in that post. I clearly indicated that this was not about the .40 cal gun. I cautioned him against believing everything he reads on the internet. If you took those words to be offensive or as an indication that I was somehow being a prick, I can not help you.
Good luck to you.
Scott
I am particular to my Mark 25, and am looking to replace my current back up weapon with a P224 that matches it (M25) in function. I have yet to find an available 9mm with the setup you have (basically exactly what I would be looking for).
Would I be smart to hold out, and hope your version of the P224 is replicated and sold in my area anytime , or would it be advised to buy a SAS-9 and send it directly to the custom shop and blame it on you? (I appologize if you receive any harsh postcards from my wife). Its possible that they are already being sold as such, and I am just too innerweb illitterate to find them.
Also, I may have overlooked it … But did you run your extra 226 mag in the 224 with no problems?
Thank You,
E
So … To jump the gun on my own question, I had the kiddos help me do a bit more searching – and found that I can get the package (DA/SA, De-cocker, full size hammer) minus the SRT in the SAS … So I think rather than getting the extreme (with SRT) I’ll go ahead and get my SAS in 9mm, and send it in for the SRT once I have run it for a while as is.
I still haven’t been able to find anyone reviewing the use of the 224 as a backup to the M25 and using the same mag seamlessly (similar to a G22/27 combo), but I’ll keep looking. I’ve seen it mentioned that they will work, but haven’t heard reviews in action yet.
Any comments pro or con are appreciated. I’ve still got a few days to make my decision – After that I’ll be living with it … And hopefully loving it. I’m selling both of my CC’s to fund the purchase, so I’ll have to make myself love it regardless.
Thanks … E
OK, I’ve been following this thread as I too have a p224 (SAS, 40 s&w, DA/SA), and have wanted to find a sleeve to make one of my p229 mags feel a bit more natural in the p224. I am a man of little patience, so rather than wait for XGrip or Sig to deliver a solution, I opted for the do-it-yourself route. I took one of my Xgrip sleeves that work for the Glock G27 using a G23 mag. When I slipped it on the Sig p229 mag, it fit OK but was a bit loose on the mag. So I wrapped one layer of electricians tape around the base of the mag where the Xgrip goes and it fit nice and snug. So far, so good. Now on to the exacto knife, files, razors, etc. in order to carve up the Xgrip sleeve so it fits (more or less) into the contours of the bottom of the p224 mag well. Don’t laugh yet; hang with me. This part requires some blind faith. As soon as I get it done, I’ll post a photo of it. Stay tuned. So here’s the link to the photo…
http://sigtalk.com/users/lynchmtn/al…p224magsleeve/
You can definitely see the do-it-yourself touch with the rough edges, but it sure does feel natural in the hand now. It ain’t pretty, but it works. Total cost: one sacrificed Glock Xgrip plus about a half hour of my time. Was it worth it?? I’ll let you be the judge of that.