The Real Truth About 1911s

This photo was taken from a 1911 course we taught in Bellevue, WA. Three quarters of the 1911s experienced failures during the test firing phase of this class, which is about average for our courses. We make it a point to get all these guns working reliably by the end of the class, and barring a dimensional issue that requires machine work (which is beyond our the scope of our mobile class format), we are usually successful in reaching this goal.

Recently, another blogger has apparently taken offense to the statement I made in a previous article. I wrote something to the effect that those who have been around 1911s know that they are finicky and requires a dedicated end user and strict maintenance. Before I go into a few technical details, I’d like to point out a few facts. Despite my comment, believe it or not, I am a 1911 fan. It is safe to say that I love 1911s and there are more of them in my safe than any other pistol I own. It was a revolutionary design that was way ahead of its time. The 1911 has influenced nearly all modern service pistols subsequent to its development. That being said, the gun is over 100 years old, and believe it or not, we have learned one or two things about building reliable, affordable pistols for duty use in the last century.

Also, those of you who follow this site know that neither Hilton or I are new to the 1911 system. Hilton’s resume speaks for itself, but I have also been fortunate enough to have been in a position to learn quite a bit about the 1911, specifically in the context of agency or unit wide issue. I have been the 1911 armorer for my agency for over a decade, and we still have quite a few of them in service. I have been fortunate enough to work for several professional firearms training organizations, and am also a firearms instructor for my agency which has allowed me to observe hundreds of thousands of rounds downrange or more, not including the approximately 10,000 rounds of pistol ammunition I personally burn through every year. (Yes, this year will hurt.) I have also carried a 1911 every day throughout my career as an armed professional, and know the advantages as well as the pitfalls of choosing this weapon system.

I have been fortunate enough to have been schooled by some of the most knowledgeable individuals on the 1911 platform. I take no credit in this; it is only through their generosity that I was lucky enough to shortcut the learning process and gain a thorough understanding of how the platform works at an accelerated pace. As such, I have built a number of full house customs 1911’s with hard fit slides, frames and barrels and repaired many more for my partners. We teach Armorer and Operator courses focused specifically on the 1911, and our students overwhelmingly give positive feedback through course evaluations regarding the specific detail we provide on the inner workings of the pistol. All this is not to pat myself on the back, as there are many specialists and SMEs that have more 1911 knowledge in their left pinkies than I have will ever have. However, I am not a neophyte and my statement is drawn upon a large body of experience specific to this platform. Compare to the blogger with little to no professional firearms experience, let alone 1911 specific training, and draw your own conclusions.

As renowned firearms instructor Ken Hackathorn often mentions, the 1911 is the “King of the Feedway Stoppage.” The reason for this is that we are asking the pistol to do more than it was ever designed to do. We ask it to feed ammunition for which it was never designed (high velocity duty ammunition with an open mouth) using a magazine with another round crammed in it. The vertical distance which the round sitting below the feed lips has to travel to reach the chamber is greater than nearly any modern pistol in common service. Add to this the feedway path (the round nose dives during feeding) and you can see why this pistol has the reputation it does. If you don’t believe that the round nose dives, take a look at the copper witness marks on your feed ramp after a heavy shooting cycle.

Also, the 1911’s extractor design is a big point of contention. This extractor is why there is a 1911 Extractor Test in the first place. I did not invent the test. I learned it from Larry Vickers, who in turn got it originally from Ken Hackathorn. This test is also used as part of the QC process at Wilson Combat. The extractor affects several phases of the Cycle of Operation, and is essentially a bent piece of metal. Too much or too little bend and the gun will stop working. Heat, wear, or improper geometry/materials/tension from the factory will result in an out of spec extractor. Modern pistols use a very easy to manufacture coil spring loaded claw that stays in spec for far longer. (1911s with external extractors are a topic for another day.)

In addition, there are more 1911 manufacturers now than I can even keep track of and all of them put their own spin on tolerances and parts quality. Nearly every part needs to be fitted to the gun if it is to work properly, and aftermarket parts vary wildly in terms of geometry and quality.

Maintenance is another issue. Shoot or deploy the gun in a heavy rain and you can expect to detail strip it if you don’t want it to turn into a fuzzy orange mess inside.

These factors (along with many more) are why many professionals, including Larry Vickers, Pat Rogers, Kyle Lamb, Kyle DeFoor and many, many others do not recommend the 1911 except to the most dedicated end users who WANT to spend the extra time to learn the idiosyncrasies of the platform. Remember the perspective from which I type. As a service member, whether LE or Military, maintenance of a sidearm competes with the time necessary to maintain other critical pieces of equipment.

If you are an 1911 enthusiast like me, then go for it. Learn the system, get the required training, tools, and parts. Enjoy it. My friend Bob Moran said it best: “So it’s heavier, requires more maintenance, holds only eight rounds and costs four times as much? I’ll take two.”

Invariably, we get responses like, “I bought my [insert favorite brand here] two years ago and shot [x number of rounds] through it and it works great! You don’t know what you are talking about.” Well, if yours works that is great. But that is a sample of exactly ONE. I work with a large sample of guns across all brands, and collectively, Hilton and I work with a sample of hundreds. And our experience mirrors those of others in the same position.

This entry was posted in 1911 by Tim Lau. Bookmark the permalink.

About Tim Lau

Tim Lau has over a decade of experience as an end user, armorer and instructor. He has worked for several well known firearms training organizations, and holds multiple firearms instructor certifications. He owns and operates 10-8 Consulting, LLC, which provides industry consulting services as well as marksmanship and specialized firearms training to qualified civilian, law enforcement and military personnel.

70 thoughts on “The Real Truth About 1911s

  1. Great article, as always. Love my 1911s and carry one daily, but always tell people if I was back in the sandbox I’d carry a plastic gun. The reliability and round capacity excel in those situations.

  2. I have owned more 1911 pistols in my lifetime than I can count, the penalty for having an old timer for a gun mentor I recon. The more you enjoy them, the more they wear. All you have to do is keep them within spec and show them some love. Feed them a steady diet of ball ammo and keep them clean. That’s it. If you want to shoot them fancy bullets get Glock. They’re ugly but I love them too.

  3. I enjoy reading your articles and agree with most of it, But I noticed in the picture you holding a Kimber…I’ve owned many Kimber’s over the years and not one of them has been reliable enough to carry…. The biggest improvement you can make to the 1911 platform is running the right combination of Magazines and ammo. I carry a Ed Brown Special Forces and use Wilson 47D’s, ETM or CMC 8 rd mags and the gun has been 100% reliable for 6,000 Plus Rounds and I had over 20,000 threw my old one this replaced..

    So I believe a quality 1911 and the right mags and it will run just as reliable as there Plastic counterparts….. With that said I also own and carry Glocks and MP’s

    • i two have owned a couple of tactical kimbers one right out of the box would lock back every 3rd round, it had an oversized internal mag catch that contacted the rounds in the mag and would cause it to lock back, the other the grip screw bushing washed out of the frame. if you want a reliable 1911, get yourself a used stock colt, the more it rattles the better. tight tolerances isnt what its cracked up to be.

  4. Backs up what Tuohy was talking about… just more detail. Some people online wil always drink the kool-aid. That’s why I like this site and Vuurwapen, no BS.

  5. Great write up and good info. I whoe hatedly agree with your statements. I have a fine and very reliable 1911 example in the form of a Springfield TRP operator that was lucky enough to enjoy a fine tuning by Mr. Larry Vickers himself sometime before I got ahold of it.. The thing is flawless and has yet to let me down in terms of reliability or accuracy yet.

    That being said, if I knew I was walking into a gunfight, I would likely rather have my M&P9 or my Sig P228 over my 1911. I trust my 1911 to save my life, I just happen to trust the others more..

    I also have one question for you, being that you are exposed to such a large test sample of brands and models of 1911’s. can you give any insight on what brands/models you personally would avoid, and which ones you would spend your hard earned coin on?

  6. LOL

    Robert Farago of TTAG, ya reading this?

    I’d say it’s mighty gentle of Tim to graciously ‘explain’ the situation, to put it mildly.

    Frankly, I too had the same EXACT reaction after reading the Robert Farago, whom on the most part I respect.

    Pure Class, Tim!

  7. People can take crazy offence you say the 1911 has reliability problems and it takes a dedicated user to make sure it runs ok. I had someone on another forum flip out for suggesting to someone instead of getting a 1911 they should get a M&p45 or Glock 21 if they wanted a pistol in 45acp. I was promptly told i don’t know what i’m talking about and said person has fired thousands of trouble free round through his Kimber Pro Carry. And that if you hit a man with a 45 round he is going down no matter what. So i bowed out of that conversation.

  8. I like my 1911 – when I take it apart, I appreciate the intrcasy of how the parts fit together with no screws (except for the grip panels). John Browning was a forward thinker.

    However, this is 2013 and its time for some CAD redesign of the feed ramp and layout. There should be a 1911 – 13 which incorporate some open changes to the platform to make it ultra reliable – like my Glocks.

    Begs the question why the Marines put out the M45 order. In combat, more rounds count, why be limited? Feed problems, etc… Are they stuck in 1911?

    • To answer your question, yes. I have had some highly respected friends who are Marines, including Force Recon. But, with nothing but respect to the Marine Corps and anyone reading this comment, Marines in general are far too caught up in the romance and nostalgia of the weapons that they carry, e.g. the 1911 and the Ka-bar. Politics and money decide what weapons the military uses. But apparently too many Marine brass believe that there has been no innovation nor improvement in equipment in the last 102 years.

      Many would beg to differ. SEAL Team 6 has gone to the HK45C and other elite units are rumored to have gone to the HKs as well. But Recon, MARSOC and Force Recon are still shooting the antiquated, high maintenance, low capacity 1911 that, despite its updated recoil spring and fancy paint job, jams more in the desert and runs out of ammo more quickly than Glocks, HKs and other modern weapons.

      The Marine Corps has every right to be proud of their history. And, between two World Wars and the Cold war, the 1911 has an impressive history of culling the world’s scumbag population. But I say that it’s high time that they get past the politics and nostalgia and give their elite troops a modern fighting handgun with modern reliability that shoots modern high capacity magazines, before it takes a few dead Marines with jammed or slidelocked 1911s in their hands to prove the point. They deserve no less.

  9. Fascinating article. Have worked on 1911 and virtually every model of modern pistol, the observations about the 1911 are dead on. However virtually every modern design handgun has some feature that needs to be corrected. Some are design issues like modernizing the 1911 others are characteristics of the weapons themselves or lack or ergonomics. The fact is that you can buy a reliable,modern 1911 out of the box and you can buy a reliable anything else out of the box.

    Proper fit and training apply to all modern handguns. Selling the world on 1911 problems is like selling the world on the fact the glocks aren’t safe. Glocks are as safe as the shooter. 1911’s are a reliable as the manufacturer. Some 1911’s need a little more maintenance than a Glock, on the other hand prior to gen 4 the fit and feel of Glock in my hand was that of an unbalanced pipe wrench.

    To each his own. Learn, Train and Master whatever systems you prefer

    • It is true that every professional end user needs to learn to operate and maintain their pistol. However, the 1911 is more expensive to properly set up (especially with all the features we have come to expect) and is also more maintenance intensive. I make these statements based on my experience with many of these guns. Yes, some 1911s are reliable out of the box, and others not so much. Here are ways to maximize your chances for success. The Colts exhibit the best out-of-the-box reliability and the Colt Rail Gun is what Hilton and I recommend to those determined to carry a 1911 for duty use. ALL 1911s need more maintenance than a Glock. The extractor setup and feedway are just two examples of why this is so.

  10. I have a love hate relationship with my Dan Wesson Valor.It shoots great & I love to shoot it .I just hate cleaning it & putting back together. So far I’ve never had any failures, range nor hollow points.Thank you for your articles. I also have a gen 3 23 & a gen 4 17 .I like them all!

    • I recently acquired a Dan Wesson Valor also. It ran fine on Federal Ball ammo, but once I introduced it to Federal Hydro shock it was hanging up on the feed ramp when I tried chambering it releasing the slide stop. It was like hitting a wall and pushed the projectile into the casing causing severe bullet set back. I knew it had something to do with the texture of the feed ramp in the frame so I polished the ramp with Flitz on a bullet shaped felt attachment @ 10K rpms. It removed the duty finish on the ramp and mirror polished it. Now it feeds with no hesitation. I now have a fully reliable sd/hd 1911 that I would trust with my life. The only other I would trust is my Sig P220.

  11. I carry an issue Glock .40 everyday. On my off duty time I carry a 1911. As Tim and Hilton have said, The 1911 is practically a lifestyle choice. You need to know the weapon system and maintain it, especially if you want to run it with modern hollowpoint ammunition.

    I’ve worked over and tuned every 1911 I’ve ever owned. I expected to do so the day I bought each and every one. Some are a better starting point than others. I’ve personally had the best results with Colt and Springfield.

    And while I don’t describe myself as an expert, I would recommend talking with people who bet their lives and the lives of others on weapons, and who have a long track record of doing so.
    Be Safe

  12. I have had this problem before, I own a Colt Government Model made in 1918, and while I love the weapon, and it is my CCW, once or twice I have had a feed problem with it. But of all the handguns I own, and every semi-automatic I have ever owned, I find this one is just the most fun, and to me, most reliably accurate.

  13. Yes, some 1911s are finicky. Some are very, very reliable. My SW 1911 with about 5400 rounds has had just two Failures to Feed and ZERO Failures to Extract. The gun was an early, low SN model assembled in the S&W Performance Shop. It, like other SW 1911, has an external extractor. 95% of round count consists of my own handloads with uniformly trimmed brass, OAL sorted, and the feedramp has received a mild polish but no serious profiling or metal removal. Powder charges held within 0.2 grains, and I use VV N310 and N320, clean-burning powders. I use only high-quality mags. Note my low FTF/FTE count includes about 50% semi-wad-cutter round. I owned a Kimber 1911 that was extremely unreliable, and a Springfield that would stove-pipe frequently. I conclude that the SW1911 may be more reliable because of superior production tolerances, better hand-fitting, and the external extractor design. I will never purchase another Kimber product. My advice is that, if you have an unreliable 1911, get rid of it. Well-made examples WILL exhibit almost flawless reliability, when fed good, consistent ammo.

    • Paul,

      The S&W Performance Center puts out some great work, and yes, a properly executed external extractor design certainly addresses one of the weaknesses of the platform. A properly tuned 1911 is a thing of beauty, and can certainly go 1000 rounds without cleaning or malfunction (though lubrication wouldn’t hurt.) That said, it can take a lot of effort and money to get there, and a bit more effort to keep it running (magazines/spring maintenance, cleaning after exposure to inclement conditions) than many modern pistols.

      • The Aftec appears to be a good stopgap solution, though it also needs to be properly set up with the correct coil springs and paired with a fitted firing pin stop to allow it to rotate. The downside is the possibility of losing the tiny springs and retainer clip during field stripping. I have one in an STI 9mm double stack game gun that works quite well (the magazines are another matter.) That said, I haven’t run an Aftec in a 45 with any particularly high round count to be able to say for sure it is the solution.

  14. I have been shooting for over 45 years, and teaching people how to shoot for many of them. I have always found that most malfunctions in many weapon systems has been the result of ‘someone’ working on the gun or tinkering with it. I will also agree with the author that the 1911 system (I have a few) can be finicky when it comes to hollow points. I’ve never had issues with standard ball ammunition nor the Wilson Combat 8 round magazines. I usually torture test my defensive guns to find out how many rounds it will go through before it needs cleaning, and my 1911’s have usually turned in a respectable number of around 1,000 to 1,200 rounds of factory ball ammunition.

    Thank you for an informative and well written article.

  15. Shoot what you want, but you best be sure that your gun runs, has a back up to it that runs, you have spare parts for common failures, and the necessary knowledge to maintain it.

    The romance with the 1911 is strong in the gun culture, but the microwave culture has eliminated the desire to actually learn how to use and maintain it. Many 1911s owned by non-shooters are “flawless” simply because they haven’t given the gun a proper chance to prove itself reliable or not.

  16. Those freaks over at TTAG are certifiable.

    That website, and most of the people that comment on it, is ridiculous.

  17. Excellent article Tim!

    The 1911 has been around for 102 years, give or take some months.

    There are no secrets to the weapon system. Only idiosyncrasies that one must familiarize oneself with and learn to appreciate.

    I often compare a fine running 1911 to an old Jag, if you truly love the system, and enjoy it on a daily basis, then expect to spend 1 hour on maintenance for every hour on the range. While the numbers are unimportant, the critical element is to completely understand the system and care for it accordingly. To use it and not care for it will lead to an unpleasant experience…guaranteed.

    Since the days (late 40s and 50s) of the old time Bullseye shooters such as Jim Clark Sr., aficionados have been welding up barrels, tightening slides and experimenting with other techniques to wring out tighter groups from the 1911. Their efforts led to an explosion in the 1911 cottage industry. But, all of this has been at the cost of reliability IMO.

    Look no further then the specs for the USMC 1911s during WWII and the Pacific campaigns. These pistols were so loose they sounded like a coffee can full of ball bearings when shaken! BUT, they discharged and cycled darn near every time. And, most importantly, magazines held 7 rounds.

    In your article, magazine capacity was briefly mentioned. Besides the extractor, I think the 8 round magazine is one of the leading problems in most properly maintained 1911s. Yes, modern music wire has allowed for a magazine spring and tube to accommodate 8 rounds, but, not without problems. Many “old timers” will not be caught with an 8 round capacity mag in their 1911. And its not because they dislike modern music wire springs. I carried 8 rounders for decades. I have gone back to 7 rounders and haven’t looked back.

    Perhaps the Corps recent order for modern railed 1911s from Colt with 7 round mags has more merit than simply for nostalgic reasons!

    Likewise, I see a lot of 1911s. Besides the extractor, many problems can generally be traced to the magazine. It is amazing how many informed 1911 operators, do not look for out of spec mags. Worn, out of dimension feed lips pop up a lot. As well as follower issues. Many of these folks do not accept the notion that a 1911 magazine (and any other detachable mag for that matter) is a disposable item!

    Thanks again for a great article!

  18. There is lot of truth and wisdom in the article and the comments. I do carry a 1911 variant daily – a Para Ordnance Night Hawg. Early on in testing, I did have a couple of stovepipes and ramp jams (honestly, probably due to my grip… it’s a small pistol!). I called Para to inquire, and they asked me to send them the pistol. They did a complete polish job, replaced every spring, and had it back to me in 72 hours. I’ve not had an issue since, and I love both my Night Hawg and my full size P-14 (bought for IPSC a couple decades ago). But I would hesitate to recommend a 1911 platform to anyone not willing to take the time to seriously train with it, including stovepipe, ramp jam, and fail to fire issues. Also, expect to spend a hellacious amount of money on ammo, because you want to verify what you are running will actually work reliably time after time. Of course, you should train for problems with ANY firearm, but a 1911 can be problematic. Unfortunately, I love them too much (no pistol has EVER fit better in my hand than a Para Ordnance .45) to carry anything else!

  19. Tim, I like what you said about asking the gun to do things for which it wasn’t designed. I read something a long time ago that Clint Smith wrote, where he basically said that the gun was designed for a 7-round mag and 230gr ball ammo. He went on to say that if you built your training around that, then running your M1911 would be far more successful.
    I’m not gonna stand here and say that my Brand X 1911 has never had a performance issue, but once I accepted the design of the gun and stopped trying to turn it into the WhackMaster 5000, she ran like a top.
    Also, if anyone reading this know the verbiage of that Clint Smith piece, I apologize for paraphrasing, but I couldn’t find it to link to.

  20. So where would I go to start acquiring the knowledge to “Learn the system, get the required training, tools, and parts?”

    Too, why do HSLD BAMFs (not universally) select 1911s?

    Good article.

  21. I made the mistake of looking at the other Blog…..dear mother of God, it is like a massive band of the gun counter commandos in one place. I flat LOVE 1911’s. I think they are the finest close quarters gunfighting pistol made. I own a ton of 1911’s that range from collector pieces to fighting guns from Larry Vickers, Steve Morrison, Chuck Rogers, TJ’s Custom Gunworks, and others. I have also dumped more 1911 lemons than any other pistol. I suck with tools, so I have long expensive relationships with gunsmith’s, and my working 1911’s run……..because I have long term expensive relationships with top 1911 guys. Now, lets talk about working 1911’s. My old agency started to allow 1911’s for uniform carry after I left. The stuff I have seen is flat disturbing when “non-dedicated” folks are carrying 1911’s in a duty role. The quote from one of the range staff of “how come you have the only 1911 that runs without any problems” is a clue. The answer to that was “because it has a Colt on the side and over $2000 to a top gunsmith”.

    For those of us who run training where more rounds will be fired in the first couple hours than many of the “experts” on the internet shoot in a year gives very difficult results. We just conducted training at a agency that issues 1911’s to their specialized units. We saw a ton of issues and malfuctions, including the use of tools to remove a over inserted 10 round magazine. We saw magazine issues, extractor issues, and the typical feedway stoppages we normally get when you have a large number of daily carried hard use 1911’s on a line.

    Of course, because the gun was used by the US Military for many years, so there are no issues……….right. The fact is many of those military guns have never had a safety applied. Were never really shot at speed, have never had slammed in speed reloads, never been carried condition one, and the list goes on. Like the comments by many of the uninformed on the internet, the guns are essentially babied by the standards we shoot to today. In the words of a military special operations member from a previous era, “we never shot the 1911 to its potential until Ken Hackathorn came along”. It wasn’t until Ken brought more realistic drills, and training doctrines that the guns began to get run hard…..and began to show where its Achilles Heel’s were.
    For the single dedicated user who understands the pitfalls and what is needed to really carry a 1911 and the associated maintenance needed to have a reliable system, or those who simply like to carry them as a talisman and symbol of a all knowing gunfighter and never shoot it……then a 1911 is great. If you give them out like candy to dedicated groups who actually shoot a lot and are hard shooters, without a solid maintenance program, you will have issues. In the case of many of the trainers at 10-8 who are teaching the 1911 programs, they ACTUALLY DO maintain large amounts of 1911 duty guns and know what the heck actually happens.
    I just picked up a 1933 Commercial Colt that spent 50 years in police service. I bet it will actually shoot good with a box of 230 gr. ball at the range………and I bet if I ran it in a week long pistol class from a top trainer shooting 3-500 rounds a day, that I not only would be way behind the curve as far as performance (due to the small worthless sights, and lack of a beavertail and small safety), but it would also be in serious need of gunsmith attention when I was done.
    I went through the 10-8 Class dedicated to maintaining the 1911 as a student. It was a massive eye opener to me, and I have far more experience with the system than your typical 1911 owner. I took a custom 1911 built by Steve Morrison, tuned by Larry Vickers, and with some parts fitted by Hilton Yam…….and it ran 100% and passed the 10-8 diagnostic test……..and it was one of the few in the class that did (and look what I spent to get there……$$$$). Many of the students were slapped hard by the reality that their super awesome 1911 had some issues, and they got to see these issues first hand with their own eyes and professional instruction on what to look for.

    • Darryl

      I do not dispute any comment above.

      BUT, I do think you are comparing totally different products.

      1933 Colt 1911 will never keep pace with a Colt 1911 manufactured the past 30 years. Even it you replace every component save the slide and receiver.

      Engineering and manufacturing practices/techniques developed during the last 50 years primarily in the aerospace industry (as I recall, Chuck Rogers was a laid off aerospace machinist before setting up his 1911 shop in his garage) has trickled down into all aspects of our daily lives, including our daily carry 1911s. The steel composition and smelting process will never allow that 1933 Colt to blast through thousands of rounds per month as you train today. Further, such a round count was never in the design criteria simply because materials and manufacturing in 1933 were simply not capable of attaining such numbers.

      For the most part, today’s materials for 1911 components are of high quality composition and manufactured with very little, if any, of man’s direct input other than through CAD/CAM. 5 axis, CNC Swiss machines, EDM, and other modern techniques have allowed tolerances to be even tighter all the while maintaining material integrity. Of course, the end product is a function of the initial material used and the data inputted into the machine by the operator. You can still have expensive garbage produced by an incompetent operator.

      Ken Hackathorn was in the right place at the right time. Experiments by the “old timers” in the 50s to enhance their old service surplus 1911s was being noticed by Colt. With help from better engineering and manufacturing techniques, these guys pushed their 1911s beyond supposed limits. And we are pushing those limits even further today.

      The 5″ 1911 is a marvel of geometric function. There are no secrets to attaining a fine running 1911. The knowledge to begin the journey down the path of enlightenment is as easy as signing up for a Bill Laughridge (Cylinder & Slide), Larry Vickers or Bob Rodgers (Bob was a Key West fishing guide before taking the C&S class) 1911 class. These classes will only wet the appetite for more knowledge. And as Darryl mentioned, lighten your wallet!

      Finally, isn’t it interesting that Ken and Larry now advocate the H&K 45C for anyone wanting a super reliable 45ACP handgun and not willing to devote the time and resources to understanding all the idiosyncrasies of the 1911 (interpret… not spend a pot full of gold).

      I still carry one of my many 1911s on a daily basis. All tuned to what works for me. And all with 7 round magazines.

  22. “Ben Cook on 06/12/2013 at 12:03 pm said:
    So where would I go to start acquiring the knowledge to “Learn the system, get the required training, tools, and parts?”

    Too, why do HSLD BAMFs (not universally) select 1911s?”

    Ben, I would highly recommend one of the 10-8 classes dedicated to the 1911 platform, or one of Larry Vickers or Ken Hackathorn’s 1911 classes. This is mainly due to the experience level of the instructors on really running the heck out of a 1911.

    As to question 2………the same reason I list the 1911 as the best close quarters gunfighting pistol made. It’s trigger mechanism allows for covering up a lot of errors from the person running the gun, it is of a caliber on the higher end of performance (and in the case of required use of FMJ ammunition is much better than the smaller calibers), and has a grip that tends to fit very well for many people to get the pistol anchored well in the hand for solid shooting performance. Many solid shooters who train hard can really do solid work with the 1911. Many of those same BAMF’s have also been BAMF’s for a couple of decades and are simply sticking with a system they have been using for most of their lives. Look at what many of the younger folks can do with more modern systems and it is becoming evident that in most cases it is the guy behind the tool and not the tool itself. Additionally, as much as I hate to say this in public, but many of the BAMF’s don’t carry a gun all the time, especially when not working operationally. Having lived daily with a 41 ounce steel 5″ 1911, and a full compliment of spare magazines in a place where you are dressing for hot temperatures, its not fun, and requires true dedication that many won’t….even the biggest fans. There are many super 1911 gunfighter types who are really only using them in limited capacities as a secondary weapon to a primary long gun. As one very high speed killing machine once told me “I like to fight with a 1911, but like to carry a little Glock”. Sort of sums it up.

  23. I, too, have a safe full of 1911 pistols, predominantly Colts, but also Springfields and a single Kimber, which is my daily carry weapon. Each has its idiosyncrasies, and each has required a certain amount of extra work to get it where I wanted it to be, whether from maintenance, parts fitting, or simply extra range time.

    Of all of them, I’m most accurate with a late-1990s stainless Commander, and I have a nice old Series 70 that I consider a suppressive fire weapon since I can’t seem to hit with it reliably, even from a bench. I have another, more recent stainless Commander that I’ve been working with periodically to get it to feed reliably. I’ve tracked the problem to the extractor, but I haven’t gotten around to fixing it. It also needed some throating on the barrel, which stopped 90% of all stoppages, but it’s still now 100 percent. There are other guns that work better, and I’ll get to that one eventually, but I won’t be grabbing it to defend myself during a home invasion.

    I had a Springfield “Operator” that needed only a replacement Government contract extractor to make it run perfectly, as the original seemed to lose all its spring characteristics very quickly. Then I traded it off because the extra weight up front (full rail) caused me to shoot low, and the Trijicon front sight didn’t have enough meat on it to allow cutting it down to bring POI up to the center. Another, cheaper Springfield ran perfectly out of the box and still does several years later, though again, I replaced the extractor when the original seemed not to have the proper temper. Problem solved in about 15 seconds.

    While the full size, lightweight Kimber CDP II’s manual suggesting a break-in period, it’s run without a single issue for almost four years. So has the older stainless Commander (14 years) and a more recent Combat Elite. A Springfield Ultra Compact lies in the safe, where it comes out occasionally to remind me that I really don’t like the ultra short guns.

    Each gun is an individual, and no matter how modern the production methods and materials, nothing on earth can guarantee that every gun will function flawlessly; I’ve just been pretty lucky, I guess. The point of this article (a very informative and well thought out piece, I might say), is that if you’re serious about the shooting part, you should be as educated as possible about what you’re carrying: how it works, how to keep it working, how to strip, clean and maintain it.

    Thanks for writing this.

  24. I had the rare pleasure of being issues and carrying a for-real 1911 when I was in the Guard, a gun that was built in 1913, never got converted to a1

    That gun worked really, really well, when fed GI ball ammo and using issued 7 round mags, as long as the mag springs were still good.

    I note that as long as things stay GI as possible the 1911 tends to work, change a bunch and things get more and more iffy.

    I gave up on 1911s as personal guns years ago, just didn’t make sense for me. Awhile back, at about the same time we were converting to Glocks at my job, a friend bought a famous name maker 1911 for off-duty carry. When I heard what he paid for it I quickly did the math; I had bought a Glock 17 and a 26, holsters for both, extra mags, a couple of cases of 9mm ball ammo and a pistol class at TDSA-Tulsa, all for less than he paid for that gun all by itself.

    Unless you are rich, or single with no bills or responsibilities, that just doesn’t make sense.

  25. Tim, your article hits the nail on the head with 1911s. It’s undeniable that a custom 1911 looks and feels like nothing else in the hand and with a gunsmith-level setup has accuracy and a trigger-break second to none. But, its typically unacceptable reliability without gunsmith-level tuning and very high maintenance requirements are why I have eschewed the platform.

    I have retired the Springfield Loaded Model that I own in favor of modern weapons with modern reliability, i.e. Glocks and Heckler and Kochs. RELIABILITY is the number one concern for a duty or defensive weapon, because when a gun jams in a real confrontation, good people die. And the brutal truth of the matter is that our beloved Old Slabsides simply can’t compete with modern weapons in the low-maintenance reliability category.

    Also, many 1911 aficionados defend its low capacity with the rebuttal that “it only takes a second and a half to do a tactical reload.” Well, if you ever find yourself in a gunfight against multiple adversaries with a slidelocked weapon while you’re getting shot at without cover, that second and a half will be the longest of your life. High capacity weapons save lives and keep their users alive longer in gunfights. The 1911 is perfectly adequate for dispatching an enemy or two and gets instant respect on the street from even hardened criminals, but against modern threats like terrorists, active shooters, flash mobs, domestic anarchy, etc., its eight round magazine is a disadvantage.

    The 1911’s stopping power is plenty, even with ball ammo for military users; but, despite their lack of part availability, HKs with their O-ring equipped barrels can rival the accuracy of many custom 1911s. I remember Hilton Yam commenting a few years back that it both amazes and pisses him off at the same time that the HK USP Tactical and Expert could outshoot half of the custom 1911s on the market. Glocks aren’t as accurate shooting bench rest as 1911s. But most end users will never appreciate the difference in accuracy between it and a 1911, as most will never have to make a 40 yard shot with a handgun and most defensive confrontations will happen within a few yards. Glocks and the older HK models will never have ergonomics on par with a 1911, but then again, nothing else does and every weapon is a tradeoff in some way.

    So, this is once again why I retired my 1911 in favor of modern weapons with modern reliability. If you still choose to shoot John Moses Browning’s masterpiece even after all of this and the article, then heed Tim’s advice. Take a 1911 operator course to learn your weapon, have spare tuned extractors or another pistol on hand and police your magazines. And take your weapon to a COMPETENT 1911 gunsmith as soon as it has ANY feed issue that can’t be immediately rectified with taking faulty magazines out of circulation.

  26. It amazes me how quickly the knives come out when someone says anything other than “The greatest fighting handgun the world has ever known” about the 1911. I am glad to see that facts rule the day here, not myth and samples of one. Keep it up!

  27. Thanks for the excellent article. I live in a state with a 10 rd magazine restriction and they’ll have to pry my old Springfield Mil Spec from my cold, dead hand. If I lived in a State that didn’t require modified Glock magazines I’d probably be saying the same thing about my Glock 19.

  28. Hi,
    I’ve got a Colt 1911 and a Kimber compact.
    I love the both but I have had a few FTF issues with both.
    Less on the Colt.
    I never even THOUGHT of NOT cleaning them after time on the range.
    This is anywhere from 50 rounds to 500 rounds. I head back to my little shop, light a cigar and clean them, usually the same day. I thought that’s what you were supposed to do !
    The Colt is much easier to clean, I’ll say that, but the Kimber is not all that bad.
    I too, like the mechanics of the 1911 and I think if you keep after it you may notice an issue before it becomes a real problem.

    Great article though. It has me thinking of a Glock next…. maybe.

  29. Nice rebuttal to the ridiculous commentary over on TTAG. I don’t understand why anyone thinks a gun designed 100 years ago is the ‘best’ combat weapon ever made. Surely there have been some advances in gun technology since the early part of the last century?

    If you lined up several modern handguns with a modern custom 1911 and evaluated them objectively, took emotion and Made in ‘Murrica sentiment out of the equation, where would you rate the 1911 has an advantage? Trigger, certainly. Geometry, maybe, though this is arguable. Reliability? No. The first two are irrelevant if the gun doesn’t go bang.

    The myth of the 1911 is self-perpetuating: it takes an expert to keep it running, people emulate experts so they buy a 1911, try to become an expert to keep it running. Rinse, repeat.

    It’s great that there are re-enactors committed to keeping this boutique gun in circulation but I don’t see the appeal. To each their own, I guess.

  30. I love the 1911 and I was dead set on buying one for my first handgun. Then I read the articles on 10-8 performance, some forum posts on LF.net and did some arithmetic. I bought a S&W M&P9.

  31. ALL GUNS FAIL……….Period. Some easier than others.
    Carry what you feel comfortable with and learn it.

    I do no strict maintenance schedule on my 1911 EDC, I have over 30k rounds down range. Have I had issues, a couple here and there, but then again I have had them in my Glock 17 well.

    The biggest problem of the 1911 is all the people that think they know what they are doing and reading current media outlets that “guide” a reader to an answer rather than really answering the question why.

    They are all tools and should be treated as such. There is no one perfect weapon system. However for the everyday civilan that has the opportunity to train, IMO no system is better than the 1911.

    For lack of better terms, the better” MSW” for law enforcement is not a 1911. Due to budget cuts and the fact that 90% of LEO’s don’t even handle their issued service weapon until time to qualify, yes the GLOCK is a way better choice.

    I get asked all the time if I would carry a 1911 into combat. My answer no. I’d carry a G17 and an AK because chances are if I am in a shoot it out situation and run out of ammo(ammo rules in combat) the dead bad guy has the same weapon and I can then use their ammo.

    Just my 2 cents

    Chris James
    Combat Precision

    • I agree that for the everyday civilian that wants to spend several times more money for an inherently more maintenance intensive weapon system, that is far more difficult/expensive to properly set up initially, weighs more and has a significantly lower capacity than most modern pisols, the 1911 is the #1 choice.

  32. I love the one comment were the guy acted like he knows more about weapons then the Marine Corps. Now that’s comedy, not some guy standing on stage telling jokes

  33. I cannot go along with this article, whatsoever.
    When you say “1911” you are covering a wide range of pistol manufactures that may or may not be attempting to improve on an alreay proven system.
    I have a few Colts that are approaching 20,000 rounds a piece with zero pistol related malfunctions and aside from an occasional spring change they are factory stock. The majority of those rounds were my home cast LSWC reloads.
    I also work with a few people that have surpassed 100,000 rounds and have been rebuilt a few times with less malfunctions you could count on one hand.
    I submit that instead of making such sweeping statements you take a hard look at the magazines from the pistols that have problems. You should also take note of the manufactures and look for a trend.
    The 1911 has served my country well and has been adopted by the Marine Corps MARSOC, the M45 in which I received one of the first test pistols from Colt.
    So, in short I disagree with your approach to the 1911. There are just too many companies making them to say “1911” and be able to make a true assumption.

    • It is true that individual 1911s can be set up to run fairly reliably, and there are individual examples of such. We have seen quite a number of 1911s of different makes (AND their magazines) and indeed we have seen trends and made note of them: for a factory pistol, you will have the best chance for success with a new production Colt Government Model. A 1911 can certainly be set up well for individual use, but usually requires significantly more effort and expense to do so than other options. And doing so for an entire agency or large unit makes that task significantly tougher.

      But, we all have our opinions which are based on our experiences and frames of reference. The reader can (and should) examine ours (as described above) compare with those of the opinions of others and form their own opinions.

      By the way, good call on obtaining an M45. This will likely be the last time we’ll ever see a large military purchase of 1911s.

  34. Tim, this is almost comical!
    Listening to you, I’d think that there were only 3 functioning 1911 pistols on earth, when most feeding problems can be remedied with a mag change.It sounds to me like you want everything to seem complicated.
    1911s do not need to be “set up”. Most 1911s are trouble free, function well and are fine pistols. I’m not sure what your agenda here is, but it’s not educating us about 1911s. Mostly all I see here is misleading and seems uninformed.

    • No, my 1911s work as did the 10 Colts I recently tested. I don’t want things to be complicated, I want them to be simple. But the reality is that the vast majority of 1911s that show up to our classes do not work. Most folks have such an emotional attachment to the platform that they don’t want to be confused by facts. Feeding problems can only be solved with a magazine change if the problem is with the magazine. But hey, if they work for you, carry on and enjoy.

      My only “agenda” is to educate professional end users so they can make informed choices regarding selecting service pistol that meets their needs. Believe it or not, I love the platform, I build full house 1911s, and I’ve carried one my entire career. I know it’s strengths as well as its limitations.

  35. I’m with you on this one, Tim. I love the 1911. It makes me look like I’m a good shooter. But even my semi-custom, completely set up, bitchin’ 1911 has had its share of malfunctions. Case in point, I was at a hand gun class. I was using Wilson Combat ETMs in prime condition. The round count for the class was relatively low. Dirt etc was not a big issue. Lube was not the problem. Nevertheless, near round 170, I had multiple failures to feed. Probably 1 failure per 2 mags for the remainder of the class. The gun did not care how I felt about it. It failed. I had to face the fact. The same thing happened in a subsequent class nearly a year later. Conclusion: my tried and true 1911 was good for about 150 rds before it became less than reliable. The good thing is that I only carried 41 rds on my duty belt at any one time. So I was fine with carrying my 1911. Having said that, my M&P has a ton of rounds with nary a malfunction. I LOVE 1911s. But there are other good choices out there.

  36. Great info on the 1911’s. I learn something every day. In my teen years I argued with my father about the 9mm being better, he was a 1911 fan. After I joined the Marines I learned that father does know best. Like your friend said, “I’ll take two.”

  37. Tim said:

    “The vertical distance which the round sitting below the feed lips has to travel to reach the chamber is greater than nearly any modern pistol in common service.”

    Why is that? I.e., what is it about the “modern designs” that results in the top cartridge in the mag being a smaller vertical distance below the centerline of the barrel?

  38. I don’t care what anyone else carries, or what they prefer. I have three Kimber 1911s, two full-sized steel frame, and one Commander-sized aluminum frame. They regularly ingest stupid amounts of reloads, including cheap-o jacketed HPs as well as cast bullets. They work.

    To date I have about 12K rounds through each of the Customs (full-size) and over 6K through the Pro Carry. Have yet to have a malf that did not involve a defective magazine or a shitty reload. (Yes, you can screw up reloading, even with a Dillon press.)

    I shot my first 1911 over 50 years ago, it being the one that followed Grandpa home from France in 1919. Haven’t found anything better since then. Different, yes; better, no.

  39. A recent issue of NRA’s “American Rifleman” magazine has an article about the Turkish manufacturer Sarsilmaz. Some of their pistols are .45, such as the K2. Italy’s Tangfolio makes “Witness” pistols in .45 What is your opinions of those .45s?

    • You’ll get what you pay for. If you have been following us here, you know full well that the 1911 is a labor intensive gun to build PROPERLY. If you pay less, you are getting less in terms of skilled labor and/or parts quality. If you want to spend $500 for a gun, then get a Glock or M&P.

  40. You said “We make it a point to get all these guns working reliably by the end of the class…”. By doing what? What are the most common issues?

    • Mostly, we see extractor issues and improper feed ramp dimensions. Fixing these issues involves recutting the feed ramp and tuning or replacing and fitting a new extractor.

  41. Uh….I have owned Randalls, Colts, a Kimber, a Remington, Springfields, etc… I think at one point I owned a dozen 1911s….Not just one. None of them had jamming problems. I note that Fred Rexer used to blame Kitchen Table Gunsmithing for the gun’s reputation in some circles. All of my 1911s are box stock except for grips. I think Rexer may have been onto something. Also, most of my shooting has been with hardball ammo. I do use some hollowpoints, but not the extreme flying ashtray types. I shoot with my thumb locked DOWN the way nature intended. When I am firing a pistol I am firing a pistol. Not hitching a ride. I do not limp wrist my guns either. And finally, let me note that with the current plethora of aftermarket parts for Glocks and M&Ps I suspect we will find out how much of the jamming service pistol problem comes from kitchen table gunsmithery. As for maintenance, my favorite has not been cleaned in ten years. Its still shooting fine despite looking awful and cycling sluggish. Its never jammed. I cannot say that for my Glock 19. The 1911 is not perfect. I have had one plunger tube come unstaked. And I have seen firing pin stop plates work loose. I note that Jeff Cooper himself used to comment upon those real-world problems with the gun, but virtually NONE of todays writers, trainers or gunsmiths even mentions it. I suspect the fact they do not comment upon it sort of shows a lack of familiarity with the guns major shortcomings on their part.

    • Shooting only ball ammunition with a seven round magazine will avoid quite a few of the shortfalls of the 1911. However, the reality is that when you are dealing with 1911s in the context of agency or unit issue, as mentioned in my article above, you will see issues that may not appear as an enthusiast who owns a few pistols. By the way, I was not aware that nature intended us to shoot pistols.

    • If at one point when you owned a dozen 1911s, I hope that you shot all of them at a rate of 3-6000 rounds per year or more and carrying all of them daily, so that we are having an apples to apples discussion about the merits of the 1911 as a service pistol. In regards to ammunition, no one in this day and age is recommending the use of hardball for defensive or duty use, and your mention of “flying ashtrays” (ie. the Speer 200gr JHP from the 80’s) dates your frame of reference. If a service pistol can’t reliably fire modern JHP ammunition, it is of no value at all. Since you cite Jeff Cooper, he would not approve of your firing with the thumb down on a 1911. Research his teachings on that.

      In short, we applaud anyone with a “but my 1911(s) work!” post, but remember the title of our forum here – Modern SERVICE Weapons, not hobby guns, range toys, fun guns, safe queens, plinkers, etc. If you have thought through your points and have something to offer or ask regarding the modern application of the 1911 as a service pistol, please have at it. We have put a great deal of time into researching what we have put out here. If we got a dollar for every 1911 shooter we have encountered who told us their 1911 was flawless, right before we found some huge problem with it or they had to call us over to fix something, we’d have….a dollar for each of those 1911 shooters.

  42. A large part of the problem is that every year, 1911 manufacturers are moving farther from the original design. Perhaps this is due to the evolution of the end user, who has a different set of requirements than the army in the early 1900s did. However, another reason could be simply because 1911 manufacturers are businesses, and sometimes the best way to profit is to convince the end user that some proprietary innovation has improved the “outdated” design. Other possibilities include adapting the design to modern manufacturing techniques, whether for cost cutting or simplifying the parts fitting process.

    Imho, if the following were more common, the 1911 may once again have a reputation for reliability:

    1) Bring back tapered feed lips for magazines. These allow the cartridges to gradually rise under the extractor.
    2) Extractors must be made of true spring steel alloys (surprisingly few companies use true spring steel).
    3) End user must face the reality that a 1911 with hard fitted parts will be less grit tolerant.
    2) End user must face the reality that any 1911 magazine with capacity over 7 rds is inherently less reliable, even the most well designed 8rds will be less reliable than 7rders (because the 7rders have the correct range of cartridge feeding angles)

    P.S. You probably already know this, but I’ll write it anyway. Nose diving (to a certain calculated degree) is an intentional part of the design. The cartridges are controlled round fed. Theoretically, controlled round feeding is more reliable than push fed, however it limits the type of bullets (must have round ogive) and the capacity (more than 7rds will increase the range of feeding angles)

  43. Wow. Those horribly unreliable 1911’s. It is a wonder they survived amd served with distinction having saved the lives of countless American soldiers during WWI, WWII, Korea and Vietnam.

    Yes, I’ve owned Sigs, Glocks and Smith & Wessons. We are no better or worse off being armed with the “old” 1911. If it weren’t for JMB, none of these “new” sidearms would exist, as they are ALL based (in general terms) ON THE 1911 design.

    Most “experts” these days seem to compare the 1911 to the Colt SAA which is foolish, as short recoil, locked breach actiona used in most Sig, Glock, S&W, CZ, Steyr, H&K, etc pistols are ALL far more closely related to the 1911 than the 1911 is to the SAA

    This bashing is tired and needs a rest. It’s all done to attract dollars to the next great thing.

    Everyone should realize that in another 30 years everything currently used will be “obsolete” with the advent of even newer designs. So too will all of us be deemed obsolete as well. Just my $0.02 – my experience being limited to shooting actively and continuously since the age of eleven and having owned over fifty different firearms of all manner.

    This coupled with having worked for one state LE Agency for 3-1/3 years and now the Feds for the past seven. Btw, our unit armorer at my last agency kept a mason jar 1/3 filled with broken extractors and ejectors from the department issued Glock 22’s / 23’s. This is a high number of failures given these were compiled during the first four years of mandatory weapons standardization for a relatively small unit

    • I would suggest you accumulate some real time around a large quantity of 1911s in LE or Mil service before you dismiss our results using broad nonfactual statements. Further, we are not impugning the design genius and legacy of the 1911. We have no financial stake in any service pistol design, and if you did your homework, you’d know that both Tim and I are/were extremely invested in 1911s and that I founded a company which was founded on custom 1911 work and parts. Lastly, the reliability and durability failings of the Glock .40 models is well known and documented. If you want to discuss or even argue, feel free, but please actually address the concerns raised in our article. Please tell us how the 1911 does not hold fewer rounds, weigh more, and require more maintenance and setup than a modern design.

      • Ah, Hilton. What, exactly, have I said that is non-factual? Yes, Hilton. I know who you are. You’ve done everything possible to ensure the planet knows who you are. I guess that’s where we differ most, as I’m more of the quiet, professional type. Also, with all due respect, you are not the only one who puts bacon on line – daily.

        I also fail to see the “half wit response.” Perhaps if some would READ what I’ve said it would be noted that I own or have owned virtually every make of modern service weapon. I just find the virulent reaponse very telling.

        Best of luck to you all.

        • Your initial heated response and this very emotional reply, neither of which tackle head on the issues brought forth in my own post, are likewise telling. You did not address any of the issues with the 1911 as a service pistol. I did not say your statements were non factual, merely that they were not directly related to the questions at hand.

          We are not in some kind of ego contest about measuring who is in LE service – YOU made it into that. I was asking for LE experience WITH A 1911. The point is that we are offering first hand information and experience about the issues with fielding 1911s as a law enforcement unit or department service weapon. You offered information about Glocks in LE service. If we were discussing Glocks in LE service rather than 1911s, then your anecdote would have been of great value. Please tell us about the jar of 1911 extractors at your agency, then we are back on topic.

          If you wish to have an educated discussion about your FIRST HAND experience with fielding a group of service 1911s and how they performed in comparison to modern service pistol designs, then let’s have a discussion. If you just want to posture and become offended with your own inferences from our replies, then good day to you.

  44. Some of you need to take a step back, breath, then come back to the piece Tim wrote and read it again. Better yet, carefully read all the installments offered by Tim and Hilton concerning the 1911. You would realize that they have yet to label the platform unreliable, outdated, etc. I suspect, by some responses, that there are many people who invest there ego’s in their 1911, read the title of this piece, skimmed over it and gave a half witted response.

  45. Can we go back to the other format, already? 🙂

    It’s not even a question of an FST or hitting the tube, it’s: ” So, what TIME did you start drinking today, Sir?”

    The real truth about MOST of my service pistols: I prefer running FMJs for feeding reliability, and that’s the ammo. we practice/qual. with, anyway. How ’bout those Packers, eh, kind of funny to see Jerry Jones NOT be able to buy a ref. squad?!

    Merry Christmas, Team.

  46. I want to thank you for an excellent article. I am not commenting to refute, or confirm your findings since I am only a sample of one. I have owned and shot 1911s almost exclusively for 40 years. I have had failures to feed, broken extractors, old style press fit front sights shoot off, the pins disappear from Gold Cup rear sights, an ejector break off flush with the frame, and recently something got into the pistol between the overtravel adjustment screw and its stop that made the pistol into a temporary brick.

    Do I still love the platform? Absolutely! Do I own anything else? Absolutely; a Glock 19 and a 21. Why? All of the issues you indicate in your article coupled with my personal experience. I accept that the 1911 requires extensive knowledge, training, and a dedication to maintenance and a lot of troubleshooting. I am personally willing to spend that time, however I am also working to ensure my Glock skills equal my 1911 skills so that a transition to a more reliable defensive pistol platform is a seamless option for me in the future.

    Stay safe and keep up the good work!

  47. The article is spot on. I grew up on the 1911 when I was a 60 gunner. Just like the old pig as we called it, it was as good as it’s gunner and the same was true of the 1911. As you said sir, do the maintenance show respect and tender loving care to her she would run. After saving enough combat pay I own a Wilson CQB. I Love it, she has never let me down and I run it hard, probably not as much as you guy’s but hollow points, ball or wad cutters it shoots and yes I use 47D’s and pro mags that work as well so far. I will admit the custom biuld and excellent material of the Wilson has a lot to do with the dependability, but I carry it off duty and demonstrate with it when I’m instructing and have not had to stand any embarrassment, knock on wood.

    Love the wealth of knowledge and professionalism here on this site. True men of honor. Be safe, God Bless and Good shooting.

    V/R
    James D Graves 1SG(R)
    Deputy Sheriff, Plaquemines Parish Sheriffs Office

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